Dramatic question

[kenaz]

So.... is it better to kill off the completely inconvenient wife who is only evident in canon because her son wasn't hatched from an egg, or have her Go West, somewhat petulantly? Trying to not to entirely demonizing a non-character, while also not wanting to be overly sympathetic, and leave slashy husband some leeway for technical infidelity without making him a total cad.

Talk amongst yourselves.

File under: #fanficproblems; #loomingdeadlines; #ohshitnotdoneyet

Comments

[ysilme]

Killing them always sounds a bit like the easy way out, but then, sending them West feels not so much better (from the easy way out point of view). I'd do the latter, if I had to choose between the two, perhaps even letting her going for ailing/sick parents or sibling or something else which will take her down a bit on the sympathy level or so. I don't suppose it would be an option to have her go the same way first, as in finding a women she prefers to be with, and either following her to the West, or somewhere else? I'm not sure I fully understand how you mean the part about the leeway.

[jaiden-s.livejournal.com]

She should flounce West in a snit.

[duck113.livejournal.com]

if he intends never to go West- to stay permanently in Arda, then either her being in Mandos halls or having sailed would mean him looking at spending eternity alone. I think faced with that prospect anyone would consider a relationship-

[talullahred.livejournal.com]

Ship the bitch! lol, sorry, I just had to say that.

I agree that both dying and sailing can seem cop outs but not too much, if they are done well. Let's not forget that ME is a violent place and many a good elf idolized Aman as the land of milk and honey. That with a husband she cannot stand (even if it's by her own bitter/angry/whatever personality) and it can work like a charm.

Good to know you're writing again!!!

[keiliss.livejournal.com]

Separation always struck me as the simplest, because neither death nor crossing the sea seems to end elven marriage in and of itself (which in some cases might have been damn annoying). I guess if it was a political match and they found they had nothing in common and went on to lead separate lives, he might want to be discreet about seeing someone else - public respect for the mother of his son, something like that?

As for LaCE, I think a whole bunch of First Age elves never read the rule book. It's a bit like a very pious and devout Christian presenting a visiting alien with a copy of the 10 Commandments and saying 'These are our rules and we all obey them'. Yeah, right.

[heartofoshun.livejournal.com]

As for LaCE, I think a whole bunch of First Age elves never read the rule book. It's a bit like a very pious and devout Christian presenting a visiting alien with a copy of the 10 Commandments and saying 'These are our rules and we all obey them'. Yeah, right.

Exactly. I never paid much attention to it at all. I didn't like it! I ignore things I dislike--like Elves never getting hungry or cold, crazy telescopic Elven eyesight, or Maedhros hanging from Thangorodhrim for 25 years (get out of here! I settled for two weeks in my story verse--that even seemed a little extreme).

On the splitting up couples question: I try to avoid it, but it is not a principled question for me. Before the couple has clear draw backs, and sailing West is part of canon. It does not seem like a cop-out to me. Killing them would seem more of a cop-out. But a good story is a good story. Whatever works for you and seems natural within the context of the world you are building ought to be workable. Vilification of one of my favorite female characters might not sit well with me, but, even then, I would never say never.

[greatandgrey]

Could there be chance that they agreed to have an open relationship from the beginning? She can still travel west, but there at least would be an understanding that if he wished to take another lover it wouldn't be considered infidelity.

[aglarien1.livejournal.com]

Sailing West had to be a viable solution. Certainly those who could not not stand the lives they were living sailed - even Celebrian. there had to be a whole lot of them who sailed to get away from equally horrible situations, like a bad marriage.

[chaotic-binky.livejournal.com]

Perhaps they could fall out of love? They needn't be angry and there would be no friction, just a simple parting of the ways because the relationship was not working and they both want different things. Later on she could have met someone else and travelled west with them.

[spiced-wine.livejournal.com]

I don't follow LACE at all, and none of my Elves are supposed to be monogamous, or stay with a spouse forever. That was just what the Valar ruled. So marriages wound down and became lacking in desire because what they were doing was not natural to the Elves anyhow. Those who did stay together were just like either friends or a kind of business partnership.

In Middle-earth it was different. They could bind themselves to some-one for as long as they wanted (if they wanted children for instance) and then part when one or the other wanted to. (You couldn't hang on to some-one if they wanted to move on, as that was unfair - not saying it didn't happen, but there were deeply ingrained 'rules' against that, as it went against their kind of 'free love' attitude) They were far more sexually free. They also didn't go to the Halls of Mandos, but became Houseless and eventually 'ferthad' (spirit of place) like genius loci, so there was no 'waiting for your spouse to be reborn' etc.

I did have to write about Thranduil's wife, as it's obvious he had one but theirs was an arranged marriage too, just somewhat more important since Oropher and Thranduil and the people originally from Doriath were incomers into the Greenwood, and a lot hung on that. When she died (which I don't cover as it was before I started writing about it) she did follow the call of Mandos rather than refuse it. I'd have to read back to see why she made that decision, but it made sense to her. Thranduil, however, had fallen head over heels for some-one else not long before and felt incredibly guilty about it. Oropher had impressed on a young Thranduil how important his marriage was and Thranduil tied himself into knots and into being utterly faithful while wanting to live how the Elves of the Wood lived. It became a habit that he deeply resented underneath. He'd never been in love until Bainalph grew up and turned out to be everything he had wanted. Now his wife's returned, but not to Thranduil, more because the Greenwood is her home and she was born there, and because she's queen. So that 'resumed' marriage is more about politics than anything else.

So most of the arranged marriages (especially of the First Age and prior) just dissolved after a while, most of them even before the Noldor left, and I don't have to kill any-one off - except the people who were actually killed off in canon. Well, Fingon's wife was awful, though it wasn't her fault, and she's okay now, but she didn't die. He did.

When the Noldor return, they're free to be with who they wish - or at least approach them. Thranduil's people have never had that kind of lifestyle 'enforced' on them and thought it was weird. :)
I know whom I think is together and so they can be without having to marry for duty's sake.

[moetushie]

Why not have them both act like adults and agree to separate? I doubt Galadriel and Celeborn had screaming rows when she went West and he did not.

Tbh, it really sours me on fic when the female character is demonized for the benefit of the slash pairing -- even if I happen to ship the pairing in question.

[moetushie]

Why not have them both act like adults and agree to separate? I doubt Galadriel and Celeborn had screaming rows when she went West and he did not.

Tbh, it really sours me on fic when the female character is demonized for the benefit of the slash paring -- even if I happen to ship the pairing in question.

[lhun-dweller.livejournal.com]

I guess she can't cloister herself in a convent and take vows of silence...?